Posts by Juan Viejo2

28

Sad news Re: Menlo Park Congregation

by Devil_Fish in

it saddens me to inform you that ruth edwards has passed.

ruth was a long time member of the menlo park congregation.

when the letter was read that indicated that john cobb, jason cobb, walter st. clair, and george stock had been removed from their post as elders, ruth fainted and needed to be taken to the hospital.

Juan Viejo2

What I find so sad is that everyone associated with the Menlo Park Kingdom Hall has been hurt and damaged. They are all under so much stress, no matter which side of the argument they support. When I hear from some of my anonymous contacts in that area, I can read the pain in their emails, and hear the sadness and fear in their voices. This applies to the brothers as well as the sisters that I've communicated with.

If I thought that I could go down to Menlo Park and go into the Kingdom Hall, walk in the door and give everyone a big hug, I would. I'd like to let them know that many of us apostates following the case are concerned for their well being. I hope that those who do not leave can once again find peace, brotherhood, and joy in fellowship within their congregation. But after all of the articles I've published on Ex-JW.com about their scandal, the "defendant" elders would probably drag me out back into the parking lot and leave me beaten and bloodied up against the freeway fence.

I really do fear that many sincere JWs in that area are being stumbled by what they are seeing and experiencing. I'm sorry that Sister Edwards may have become a victim of that conflict. I hope there are no others that pay that high a price.

JV

28

Sad news Re: Menlo Park Congregation

by Devil_Fish in

it saddens me to inform you that ruth edwards has passed.

ruth was a long time member of the menlo park congregation.

when the letter was read that indicated that john cobb, jason cobb, walter st. clair, and george stock had been removed from their post as elders, ruth fainted and needed to be taken to the hospital.

Juan Viejo2

Fish,

Sorry to hear that there has been another innocent victim caught in the crossfire of this controversy.

If you can get the word to her family, please express my sincere condolences.

JV

18

Menlo Park KH discussion in the WTS' eyes

by Magi in

after reading much on this scandal, we know that many if not all jws will not go out of there way to read up on this info.

does anyone know what the rumor in the congregations are about this topic?

i'm sure alot of them are just taken back by fellow witnesses taking the society to court, bringing reproach on god's name.

Juan Viejo2

Stuck,

That rumor (elders went apostate) is absolutely untrue. Here are a few facts you should be aware of:

1. Not a single one of the former elders (plaintiffs) will talk to me. They've made it clear that they do not individually, or as a group, support apostates - and still believe and support the religious teachings of the Watchtower. My direct contacts there are mostly "civilians" who know the men involved, but are not Witnesses themselves. Believe me, I've tried to contact the plaintiffs - but they won't budge. I've called their phone numbers and have even visited Menlo Park on several occasions hoping to set up a meeting - but they won't communicate with me directly. I doubt if they will have any contact with any ex or apostate JWs until they are officially disfellowshipped from the religion.

2. I have spoken to and received emails from other Witnesses in Menlo Park and surrounding areas. While support for the deposed elders is mixed, not one has ever stated that Jason Cobb or the others have ever approached any of them or tried to convince any of them to support the plaintiffs.

3. Jason Cobb and his family have continued to attend meetings at Menlo Park and continue as regular publishers. They have had to leave the area at times for fear of possible reprisals, but have not resigned from the Hall or become regular members of another congregation. Read the segment 5 of part 3 of "Elder Tells All" and you will see how he and his family have been treated by the new elder group even during meetings. Many in the Kingdom Hall have actually shunned them as if they were already disfellowshipped.

4. While many of my JW contacts in Menlo Park have expressed their support for Jason Cobb and the other plaintiffs, some are afraid to show that friendship within the Kingdom Hall for fear of being branded and marked themselves as possible troublemakers. A few have expressed their admiration for the fearless way that the Cobbs and St. Clair have stood up to the defendants and the organization - but again are afraid to demonstrate that support in any way for fear of being caught up in the purge that is sure to come.

5. A couple of my contacts remarked that they only learned the truth about what had happened by sneaking a peak at Ex-JW.com and reading the court documents for themselves. One told me that remarks by the current elder body accused the Cobbs of being thieves and "wanting to steal the Kingdom Hall away from the Watchtower and clean out the bank accounts too."

6. Another contact in the area who does not attend the Menlo Park Kingdom Hall told me that some of the MPKH members had told him that they been approached and asked point blank by the new elders "where do your loyalties lie?" Most simply replied "with Jehovah's organization" or something similar. They are trying to figure out who still supports the former elders. They are forcing us to lie in order to avoid being kicked out ourselves.

7. I forgot to mention that there is a rumor going around nearby congregations (Palo Alto, Redwood City) that the Watchtower Society may just shut down the English MP congregation, reassign the English speaking members to other nearby Kingdom Halls. They will leave the Japanese congregation and bring in a Spanish congregation from Redwood City to meet there until the building is abandoned altogether or sold. The rumor is that the RBC and the Service Department believe that if none of the players remain in Menlo Park then the controversy will simply die and the court cases with it.

I wish that I could share more, but to do so would put innocent JWs and their families in the SF south bay area in jeopardy. I do not want to be the instrument for the destruction of any JW families.

JV

72

Menlo Park KH - Elder Tells All - and more

by Juan Viejo2 in

i've published part one of a three part series about the menlo park kh scandal.

http://ex-jw.com/menlo-park-elder-tells-all-1.

this has been a tough one for me.. the original federal case was dismissed in january.

Juan Viejo2

Sorry it took so long (lots of interruptions over the past few days), but part 3 of this series is now online for those of you following this story.

http://ex-jw.com/menlo-park-elder-tells-all-3

I suggest that you take this in smaller bites and not try to read the whole thing in one sitting. Feel free to download the court documents and read them offline at your convenience.

This article really lays out the events leading to the takeover and all of the backroom maneuvers that were taking place. When you read the background to the one incident that led to the original elders being taken out, you will wonder what the hell the Watchtower was thinking.

I hope you enjoy this series. I've decided to continue to cover this story as it progresses through a different federal court in San Jose, California. I've not had any objections so far from anyone involved in the case - and since the court documents are public domain, I can pretty much tell the whole story based on actual court testimony.

Enjoy...

JV

11

.STARTING OUT IN MAINSTREAM

by Lady Lee in

jw
friends

i got this email this morning and thought i would pass the info on to those who want to take a look.

the info is geared to the us so some things may need further research if you dont live in the us but i think most might be very helpful to some.. .

the international cultic studies association (icsa) is proud to welcome starting out in mainstream america by livia bardin, an online resource for people who have left cults, their families and friends, and professionals working to help them.. .

Juan Viejo2

Lee,

Definitely a problem with the Links section. Sometimes it won't load at all. Sometimes it starts to load and then crashes. Sometimes it throws up a captcha even though I am already logged in. Fill in the captcha and it goes blank. I'm using Chrome, which is the strongest and most stable of my browsers.

There is some valuable material in those threads. I hope you can find a fix.

JV

23

Today, the Sudbury (Suffolk - UK) Congregation heard announced that "Rory Sullivan is no longer one of JWs"

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

http://www.acarpenterfromnazareth.com/2012/03/open-letter-to-body-of-elders.html#moresunday, march 25, 2012an open letter to the body of elders .

an open letter to the body of elders,.

sudbury (suffolk) congregation of jehovah's witnesses.

Juan Viejo2

Rory submitted his article to me as well. In fact I asked for it when I saw his first thread a couple of weeks ago about this happening.

I had it edited and in queue when I saw that it had been published on another website. But I decided to go ahead and publish it, although still centered around Rory's letter, as my presentation is a little different and expanded somewhat.

http://ex-jw.com/sudbury-elders-reconsider-your-actions

I have not heard from Rory as to whether the letter was actually read the evening of the 4th. I think he brings up some excellent points.

Seeing how his article is appearing between two of the Menlo Park "Elder tells all" posts, he should have a lot of readers and commenters.

I wish only the best for Rory and his family. He seems strong, so I'm sure he will survive however it turns out.

JV

42

Are You Ready for The Memorial?

by OnTheWayOut in

it's this week, folks.

i thought i might give you a new thread to vent on.

many on our forum still go to the memorial or have to answer to family about not going.

Juan Viejo2

Tonight around Memorial time I will be celebrating in my own way:

Wheat Thins crackers (unleavened bread)

Willamette Valley Pinot Noir (the holiest of red wines - and I plan on drinking at least two full glasses).

I am definitely not one of the Watchtower's "anointed" - so I'll move all flammables away from my seat in front of my wide-screen TV - just in case lightning passes through our second floor and incinerates me.

I'll be enjoying my Memorial celebration while watching "American Idol" - far more entertaining and uplifting than a trip to the local Kingdom Hall.

I know - because I went to the Memorial last year just for the hell of it. What a total waste of my valuable time.

JV

27

Do I have this right?

by allyouneedislove in

do i have this right?.

jw are to be completely obedient to the fds.

they are not to question, speak against the teachings of, or disobey the fds.. however, the fds's teachings change and many past teachings are now seen as incorrect.. still, though, jws are to completely and unquestionably obey all teachings of the fds, no matter if they personally believe such are wrong or if they carry severe consequenses.. .

Juan Viejo2

I've studied the issue of "who is the 'faithful and discreet slave' " at length. Cedars and I even put a min-survey on JWSurvey.org asking this specific question (BTW - that survey is still open). http://jwsurvey.org/mini-surveys/mini-survey-who-is-the-faithful-and-discreet-slave

Steven Unthanks' legal case in Victoria, Au named the "faithful and discreet slave" as a possible defendant, but the Watchtower legal eagle came back and indicated that the FDS is not a real person, group, or legal entity, but only "a theological concept." That was a lie.

As I read through recent Watchtower literature, I can see that the FDS is presented as someone to obey and to listen to in all things. Just how do you "obey" or "listen to" a theological concept? Is this some new evolutionary development unknown to science, a walking, talking, and writing "concept"?

Looking at all of the evidence, to use the Watchtower's favorite phrase, it's "evident" that when the Watchtower uses the term "faithful and discreet slave" they are talking about "the organization" based in the state of New York, United States of America. The FDS does not reside in branch offices in the UK, Australia, Europe, or South America - only in New York, USA. The FDS may be spread around equally between Patterson, Wallkill, Brooklyn and other locations in New York, but other than maybe a small chunk that has taken up residence in Canada, the FDS exists no where else in the world.

The "FDS" has become synonomous with what Catholics call "the Church." To Catholics, "the Church" is not a specific building (not even in the Vatican), nor a specific person (not even the Pope), or a group of church leaders. While the term "the Church" can be applied to the membership as a whole, the common Catholic is not thinking of human beings, or buildings, or some level of the hierarchy. "The Church" is the Roman Catholic Church! Simple as that.

When you try to define who the FDS is that Jehovah's Witnesses are to follow, the concept becomes even more muddled. "No," the Watchtower says, the FDS is not individual living members of the Anointed (9,000 and growing!), nor the officers of the New York or Pennsylvania corporations, or the Writing Department (most of the writers are not anointed, but rather "other sheep" like the rest of us).

The Governing Body of 7 older men who claim to be of the anointed class state that they "only represent the FDS" by presenting its teachings and guidance to the flock (rank and file).

So exactly how does this work? How does the Governing Body know exactly what the FDS wants them to do? The most obvious answer is that they "talk to their hands" or simply pull it out of their collective asses. Maybe they have a little old man sitting in a closet yelling through a megaphone whenever he is "inspired." So just how can a "theological concept" give direction to a bunch of old men?

Let's face it: The FDS is the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. The FDS is the Watchtower's "the Church." Since a "corporation" is a legal entity and has certain powers and purposes as defined by its charter and the votes of its board of directors, in the USA a corporation is "a person" who can act in the best interests of "its stockholders." (Just ask Mitt Romney - "...corporations are people too!")

So the Watchtower legal department lied to the Australian courts when they stated that the FDS "was a theological concept." It's not. It is the Watchtower Bible and Tract Societies of New York and Pennsylvania who have taken it upon themselves and appointed and anointed themselves as the "faithful and discreet slave."

JV

72

Menlo Park KH - Elder Tells All - and more

by Juan Viejo2 in

i've published part one of a three part series about the menlo park kh scandal.

http://ex-jw.com/menlo-park-elder-tells-all-1.

this has been a tough one for me.. the original federal case was dismissed in january.

Juan Viejo2

Elder Tells All - 2 is online now.

http://ex-jw.com/menlo-park-elder-tells-all-2

Because of the way the documents were filed, it is not an easy read - but a very interesting one.

Some of you will appreciate the amount of pressure Jason Cobb was under (and he wasn't feeling well that day either), and yet he never gave an inch to the defense attorney deposing him. That same week, he was preparing his case for the state court against some of the same defendants. The attorney for the defense, Anthony V. Smith, was also preparing to defend the state case against Jason Cobb. He found himself locked in a battle with a strong-willed Mr. Cobb.

I know that some of you will read this deposition and think that Anthony Smith, the defense attorney, was being as flexible as possible and Jason Cobb was being a total asshole, inflexible and uncooperative. But if you realize that Jason was not a plaintiff in the federal case, only a witness willing to testify as to the facts of the federal case, not the state case. Smith was directing all of his questions to Jason and putting him on the defensive, more like a prosecuting attorney. He was asking questions about Jason Cobb's family, education and other personal details that had absolutely no bearing on the federal case.

I'm exhausted and will take a couple of days to catch my breath. I've been working on these articles for several weeks. The third part of this series will be a lot more revealing and educational about the details of the case and how it developed, who did what to whom, and why the plaintiffs decided to make the big move to take the new elder body and the RBC to court. Jason Cobb will once again tell his story, but this time being questioned by his father, plaintiff Jonathan Cobb Sr.

I'll let everyone know that the new article is up in a few days. In the meantime, I'll sneak in a contributed article by one of our own posters here on JWN. I think you'll appreciate what he has to say.

JV

72

Menlo Park KH - Elder Tells All - and more

by Juan Viejo2 in

i've published part one of a three part series about the menlo park kh scandal.

http://ex-jw.com/menlo-park-elder-tells-all-1.

this has been a tough one for me.. the original federal case was dismissed in january.

Juan Viejo2

Second article in series will be online in just a few hours. Metatron: This question comes up frequently, but it's because those asking don't understand the circumstances. Not only were these elders removed from their positions within the congregation, they were also slandered during a Kingdom Hall meeting.

Their motivation has never been about money or fame or any of those things. If they had asked for monetary damages from the very beginning they may have gotten some licensed professional legal assistance and their first federal lawsuit might not have been dismissed. But money has never been their motivation - they have not even asked for financial help from outsiders, although I am sure they would welcome some.

You have to ask yourself if you were in their position: If your conscience was clear and you had served your congregation in some capacity for dozens of years without scandal - and then suddenly you were removed from your position and then through implication accused of theft - and you were faced with probable disfellowshipping and the loss of contact with many of your close family members...

WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

WOULD YOU NOT FIGHT? OR WOULD YOU JUST TUCK TAIL AND WANDER OFF FIGURING IT WAS "JEHOVAH'S WILL?

JV